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  #41  
Old 01-03-2012, 09:56 PM
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slammed 58 chevy slammed 58 chevy is offline
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Its been interesting following this thread.
Shows how far you've come in just a few weeks.
Looks like you got the hang of it now. Good luck on the rest of the truck.
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  #42  
Old 01-04-2012, 12:00 AM
BrassBuilder BrassBuilder is offline
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Thanks. You have no idea how many times I was going to throw in the towel and just cut the corners, solder them, and be done. But I really wanted to get the hang of forming copper.

I couldn't have done it without all the advice here.
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  #43  
Old 01-04-2012, 12:22 AM
Dyce Dyce is offline
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Nice job Mike!!
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  #44  
Old 01-04-2012, 02:43 AM
TheRodDoc TheRodDoc is offline
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Mike,

You just learned what 98% of the people on these sites didn't know how to do. It is a form of raising. You may or may not have noticed that the metal thickness has stayed about the same in the corner as in the rest of the sheet. Rather then having the corner way thicker from trying to force vertical tucks into the corner like the way you started. And is also the a lot of others would have done.

As you gain more practice you can do corners like this over a stake without a clamp or a hammer form. You can flow the metal to where ever it is needed or not needed.

I don't use the process near as much for auto panels for their shapes usually don't require it but In my spare time I like to make drinking glasses, vases and pitchers in which you must use the raising process.
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  #45  
Old 01-04-2012, 10:55 PM
BrassBuilder BrassBuilder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRodDoc View Post
Mike,

You may or may not have noticed that the metal thickness has stayed about the same in the corner as in the rest of the sheet. Rather then having the corner way thicker from trying to force vertical tucks into the corner like the way you started. And is also the a lot of others would have done.
Interesting. Actually I did notice. It may have gotten just a tad thicker but not by what I was expecting. From the research that I've done, doing tuck shrinking should have made the edge noticeably thicker. I was sort of wondering why that was not happening here.
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  #46  
Old 01-05-2012, 10:12 AM
mark g mark g is offline
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The raising technique you had success with is simialr to metalspinning or deep drawing where the metal from one axis slips and flows into the other axis if it is the path of least resistance.

If you think of the metal plane as having two axes, the metal being compessed in one axis slips into (and lengthens) the other axis, if takes less pressure to do so than to upset (gain thickness, or shrink as we call it here). Often our calculations on how much the metal should gain thickness in some types of shrinking operations fail because we don't consider how much the metal moves in other directions as it resists being shrunken. Because we get the shape we expect it's normal to think it happened for reasons we expect but it isn't always so.

The copper in this case was pulled down out of the area as the corner was formed then trimmed off.
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  #47  
Old 01-05-2012, 06:27 PM
BrassBuilder BrassBuilder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark g View Post
The raising technique you had success with is simialr to metalspinning or deep drawing where the metal from one axis slips and flows into the other axis if it is the path of least resistance.

If you think of the metal plane as having two axes, the metal being compessed in one axis slips into (and lengthens) the other axis, if takes less pressure to do so than to upset (gain thickness, or shrink as we call it here). Often our calculations on how much the metal should gain thickness in some types of shrinking operations fail because we don't consider how much the metal moves in other directions as it resists being shrunken. Because we get the shape we expect it's normal to think it happened for reasons we expect but it isn't always so.

The copper in this case was pulled down out of the area as the corner was formed then trimmed off.
So....if I am following this correctly, this is almost more of a stretching operation than a shrinking operation? Or a combination of the two?
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  #48  
Old 01-05-2012, 11:54 PM
mark g mark g is offline
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A combination is what I'm suggesting, but our model for understanding the generation of forms by shrinking or stretching really doesn't fit every situration very well. It only goes so far to discribe what happens in the process of drawing a flat plane into a curved one, in processes where the metal is allowed to slip along paths of lowered resistance. Flow might be a better concept, or drawing.

I admire your perseverance.
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  #49  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:55 AM
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This entire thread gave me hope and education. Awesome thread; I've been lurking for a while, hoping to find exactly this info.
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  #50  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRodDoc View Post
Mike,

You just learned what 98% of the people on these sites didn't know how to do. It is a form of raising. You may or may not have noticed that the metal thickness has stayed about the same in the corner as in the rest of the sheet. Rather then having the corner way thicker from trying to force vertical tucks into the corner like the way you started. And is also the a lot of others would have done.

As you gain more practice you can do corners like this over a stake without a clamp or a hammer form. You can flow the metal to where ever it is needed or not needed.

I don't use the process near as much for auto panels for their shapes usually don't require it but In my spare time I like to make drinking glasses, vases and pitchers in which you must use the raising process.
The process of Raising has been mentioned on this forum but never really shown in a nice example as this thread has. Mark G and RodDoc shared some good info. David Gardnier also refers to raising in his posts. Thanks.

Below are some copies of a section from a book "Form Emphasis for Metalsmiths" by Heikki Seppa. ISBN 0-87338-212-9 The book is available new and used at Amazon.com for less than $20. Lots of other good information.



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