All MetalShaping

Go Back   All MetalShaping > General Metal Shaping Discussion > Basic questions and answers
  Today's Posts Posts for Last 7 Days Posts for Last 14 Days  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 09-14-2017, 09:14 PM
maverick5582's Avatar
maverick5582 maverick5582 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Lumberton, North Carolina
Posts: 14
Default Making the buck

Quote:
Originally Posted by crystallographic View Post
Copying an existing crown from another car is common.

Developing a crown from nuttin' at all is a horse of a different color. For this you need to lay flexible strips of thin metal or wood across the opening in both directions to see what looks "fair."
When one can be clamped in "fair" then hold a piece of light poster board or box cardboard against it and take a line from that. Repeat until you have 3-4 lines either way. Make a wood eggcrate from that and make your panel fit that, then test for the look on the car. You might end up pretty close.

Or just cut out a sheet of metal, lay it up there, and then hammer around in the largish center of the sheet until you get your shape going, and adjust as you shape it, marking the low spots with a marker to target more hitting.

I've made missing skins for cars by kneeling on the concrete floor and hammering up the skins on the concrete - like some of the old car companies did many years ago.
Thank you I thought I was really lost on that one.
__________________
John a.k.a. Mav
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-14-2017, 09:25 PM
maverick5582's Avatar
maverick5582 maverick5582 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Lumberton, North Carolina
Posts: 14
Default

Roof grid.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglefordracer View Post
Mav,
Kent went from the concept that you had an existing roof to copy from. You kinda added that you have a hole where the roof was.

Try some 1/4 in thin wall tubing. Cut and tack weld to underside of roof edge. Now, place a piece or two of vertical pieces of wood cut to a profile height that allows you to great the center countour you like. This is equivalent to what kent stated about the center spine with blue tape. This tube is your center line going length of car. Now, pick transverse points on say 6 inch spacing, these,will be your transverse sections, or what are called stations.

You will now have a grid of tubes from the edge to the center spine. It's kinda like creating a grid over a drawing, and you scale your sketch inside each small box created by grid.

You will now have a contour created that you use to shape your sheet metal to. Like making a patchwork quilt. The welds will be planished (smoothed by hammering) between the patches...

Use paper patterns from the grid work to generate the shape to cut you metal patches...

Hope that helps?
It does my car already has a ring in the roof where the weather stripping was for the old vinyl cover. Found a picture someone else posted that is similar to mine.
__________________
John a.k.a. Mav

Last edited by route56wingnut; 09-15-2017 at 03:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-15-2017, 04:05 AM
Ben's Avatar
Ben Ben is offline
MetalShaper of the Month Dec 2010, Sept 2015, Jan 2016
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 644
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick5582 View Post
I assume you are talking about any mini cooper roof?


When you say "planish out the weld" I assume you mean bringing the weld flush to the panel so it is not seen, correct. This is a new term for me.
Yes and Yes
__________________
Ben
www.mechammer.com
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-15-2017, 06:57 AM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
MetalShaper of the Month January 2020, March 2022
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 2,845
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crystallographic View Post
Copying an existing crown from another car is common.

Developing a crown from nuttin' at all is a horse of a different color. For this you need to lay flexible strips of thin metal or wood across the opening in both directions to see what looks "fair."
When one can be clamped in "fair" then hold a piece of light poster board or box cardboard against it and take a line from that. Repeat until you have 3-4 lines either way. Make a wood eggcrate from that and make your panel fit that, then test for the look on the car. You might end up pretty close.

Or just cut out a sheet of metal, lay it up there, and then hammmer around in the largish center of the sheet until you get your shape going, and adjust as you shape it, marking the low spots with a marker to target more hitting.

I've made missing skins for cars by kneeling on the concrete floor and hammering up the skins on the concrete - like some of the old car companies did many years ago.
While I've not personally done a roof insert or such yet- For thin metal strips to provide an initial 3D shape, I use old steel banding material because it's handy around here. It's very simple to use for a long low crown curve. sharper transition bends can be made. The material can be doubled to limit sag.

With longitude/latitude strips crossing each other at 90 deg or whatever necessary angle, holes can be punched with a Whitney punch (easier than drilling) so strips can be pop riveted into place. This stiffens the shape a lot, but sometimes it helps to add ties (wire or string) between some of these intersecting joints to help hold the shape and limit sag.

The width of the banding has a lot to do with how it works. Some plastic banding is ok, but it's best for small spans. Very fast and easy to do a simple form to develop a concept before making it more permanent.

And I agree- Some people do amazing things with a concrete floor....
__________________
AC Button II
http://CarolinaSculptureStudio.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-15-2017, 10:15 AM
John Buchtenkirch John Buchtenkirch is offline
MetalShaper of the Month October 2012
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Glen Cove, Long Island
Posts: 1,675
Default

I agree with Ben in post #5, unless you have years of experience in metalworking your best chance of a successful outcome is going to be with a used roof skin from a donor car that’s close to the crown you need. Just welding it in without ending up with oil canning problems is going to quite challenging for a beginner.
When using a used roof skin understand you can crown it further from front to back but the crown from side to side will flatten out a bit. It always works in opposites like that, you will not be able crown the panel further / more in both directions at the same time. Kind of hard for me to explain but true. Good luck . ~ John Buchtenkirch
__________________
John
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-15-2017, 10:42 AM
maverick5582's Avatar
maverick5582 maverick5582 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Lumberton, North Carolina
Posts: 14
Default First things first

I have chopped the roof on my Anglia 2 1/2". I have been hunting a donor roof but until the Mini roof was mentioned I could not find a suitable donor. I found another web site where they used a mini roof and it looks like the best way to proceed. Thank you one and all for that bit of advice.

I have had to add metal and butt weld it to the areas there were gaps in. I used my TIG where I could trim to zero gap. Other areas I had to use panels clamps and a piece of copper backing with my MIG.

Where the metal was added I have a low spot. Now, until I read about planishing on this website I had never heard of this. In the pass it was always flanges and overlaps. I wanted to stay away from that on this project. The metal strips I added were 18 gauge. Suggestions please.

Roof Problem #1.jpg

Roof Problem #2.jpg
__________________
John a.k.a. Mav
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-15-2017, 11:59 AM
123pugsy's Avatar
123pugsy 123pugsy is offline
MetalShaper of the Month Dec. 2019, Feb. 2022
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Markham,ON
Posts: 2,165
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick5582 View Post
I have chopped the roof on my Anglia 2 1/2". I have been hunting a donor roof but until the Mini roof was mentioned I could not find a suitable donor. I found another web site where they used a mini roof and it looks like the best way to proceed. Thank you one and all for that bit of advice.

I have had to add metal and butt weld it to the areas there were gaps in. I used my TIG where I could trim to zero gap. Other areas I had to use panels clamps and a piece of copper backing with my MIG.

Where the metal was added I have a low spot. Now, until I read about planishing on this website I had never heard of this. In the pass it was always flanges and overlaps. I wanted to stay away from that on this project. The metal strips I added were 18 gauge. Suggestions please.

Attachment 43284

Attachment 43285
First thing to do is to carefully grind the welding rod down flush to the surrounding metal. Some use a small cutoff disc across the weld. I tried it and it works well. Clean up both sides, top and bottom.

Then you need to planish (hammer on dolly) to stretch all the shrinkage caused by the welding. Slow and steady gets it done.
__________________
Pugsy

my project:
http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=154
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-15-2017, 02:49 PM
Sprint Relic Sprint Relic is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Mesquite, TX.
Posts: 129
Default

Hi John, I'm pretty new to metalshaping, just a couple of projects so far, but a couple of educational incidents I'd like to share are:

1) If you were to make your own template for the hole when you lay the flexible strip across the hole, only mark your paper or cardboard to halfway then flip it over for the other half (like a kid cutting out a paper heart) so you get a symmetrical template, then hope the car is symmetrical lol.

2) If you find a suitable roof insert it will probably need some tuning. My advice is to sneak up on it. I made some parts that I thought had a lot of shape in them, spent most of my time shrinking back from enthusiastic hammer blows.

By the way I knew both of these things before I started and did them in spite of it
Just my 2cents
Skip
__________________
Skip Wilson

Last edited by Sprint Relic; 09-15-2017 at 02:52 PM. Reason: wrong name
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-15-2017, 03:02 PM
Sprint Relic Sprint Relic is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Mesquite, TX.
Posts: 129
Default

This is not mine but I have been working on it every Sunday for the past four years 1948 Standard Flying Eight
20150217_160602.jpg
__________________
Skip Wilson
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-15-2017, 06:04 PM
maverick5582's Avatar
maverick5582 maverick5582 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Lumberton, North Carolina
Posts: 14
Default Taking it slow and easy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprint Relic View Post
Hi John, I'm pretty new to metalshaping, just a couple of projects so far, but a couple of educational incidents I'd like to share are:

1) If you were to make your own template for the hole when you lay the flexible strip across the hole, only mark your paper or cardboard to halfway then flip it over for the other half (like a kid cutting out a paper heart) so you get a symmetrical template, then hope the car is symmetrical lol.

2) If you find a suitable roof insert it will probably need some tuning. My advice is to sneak up on it. I made some parts that I thought had a lot of shape in them, spent most of my time shrinking back from enthusiastic hammer blows.

By the way I knew both of these things before I started and did them in spite of it
Just my 2cents
Skip
Skip: We've all been there. I am trying real hard to do this build the correct way. I am making mistakes, but I am learning a lot. The hammer and dolly is a bitch sometimes. I am having a hard time with some of the strips I welded in. Learning how much a panel can shrink when you weld it on both sides. I found a mini cooper roof and I am going to pick it up next week. Found a gentleman who has been doing these roofs for a long time. I downloaded all the pics I could find of his work. His work is an inspiration in how someone does it the right way. There is a lot of good info here and I am trying to make the most of it. I have many pieces of sheet metal that I am going to have to make myself, so all the advice I can get is welcome. I have removed over 20 lbs. of lead from this body and found some atrocious body work under it. I am thinking it will take me a year of work on this body. That is a nice Anglia you have. Thanks for the advice.
__________________
John a.k.a. Mav
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:07 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.