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  #11  
Old 12-26-2011, 08:08 PM
TheRodDoc TheRodDoc is offline
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A hammer something like this would work fine. If you have a small light raising hammer even better.

02.jpg
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  #12  
Old 12-26-2011, 08:24 PM
route56wingnut route56wingnut is offline
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I would try doing it the way you had it by clamping on the top , however instead of cutting the material to size at the corners , I would actually start with more material .
Then take a vice grip clamping on the additional material below the finished area , and while pulling down strike the material over the edge using a soft hammer or a wood corking tool and ecourage it over the edge going back and forth while also changing positions with the vice grip .
You also may have to come up with an aid to help pull the vice grip . Also if you need to anneal it the best way is to heat it it to a red state and quench with the coldesr water you have available as this will give you the best results .
Good luck and tell us how it works .By the way I can already tell you it will so dont be afraid to use this method .
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  #13  
Old 12-26-2011, 09:44 PM
BrassBuilder BrassBuilder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRodDoc View Post
You need to try clamping the copper down first with another board. Trim the copper to just the right size with round corners. Then push the copper down over the sides in the center of the straight areas.

Don't make any tucks with a tool in the corners. Use a chisel shaped small hammer with the chisel end well rounded. Start at the top of the corner and work down. work in a semi circle, back and forth. slowly move your hammer rows down. the metal will start to tuck on it's own. As it does flatten only the very top of each. work down. As more form flatten only the very tops again and etc. Your hammer will be forcing the metal down at the same time it is smoothing out the wrinkles.

I tried to draw it but it is tough to draw what you need to see. Going to have to do. (A little at a time. Easy as you go!)
I think I am following. I take it the white area is my copper and that the corners won't actually be cut out where I have it circled since you told me to do this:
Quote:
Trim the copper to just the right size with round corners.
coppercornersModified.jpg

When I press the sides down, the corners form a natural tuck and a large one at that. I am not sure I am going to be able to get that all shrunk down at once, but until I try, I guess I'll never know .

Thanks. I'll let you know how I turn out.
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Last edited by BrassBuilder; 12-26-2011 at 09:51 PM.
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  #14  
Old 12-26-2011, 09:46 PM
BrassBuilder BrassBuilder is offline
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Originally Posted by TheRodDoc View Post
A hammer something like this would work fine. If you have a small light raising hammer even better.
I actually do have one of those hammers and was using it on the steel attempt. I may have to round the edge off a bit though. I noticed it was fairly sharp and left a lot of dents.
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Last edited by BrassBuilder; 12-26-2011 at 09:51 PM.
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  #15  
Old 12-26-2011, 09:49 PM
BrassBuilder BrassBuilder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by route56wingnut View Post
I would try doing it the way you had it by clamping on the top , however instead of cutting the material to size at the corners , I would actually start with more material .
Then take a vice grip clamping on the additional material below the finished area , and while pulling down strike the material over the edge using a soft hammer or a wood corking tool and ecourage it over the edge going back and forth while also changing positions with the vice grip .
You also may have to come up with an aid to help pull the vice grip . Also if you need to anneal it the best way is to heat it it to a red state and quench with the coldesr water you have available as this will give you the best results .
Good luck and tell us how it works .By the way I can already tell you it will so dont be afraid to use this method .
Sounds much like what Richard (TheRodDoc) suggested but without the vise grips. I'm going to give this a try possibly tonite yet.

For annealing copper, I've read suggestions on doing it two ways:

1. Red hot and let naturally cool.

2. Red hot and dunk in water.

I've been doing it both ways although this morning, I switched over to dunking in water.

Thanks
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  #16  
Old 12-26-2011, 09:50 PM
BrassBuilder BrassBuilder is offline
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One other question:

After annealing, should I be cleaning the copper between annealings? I noticed that there gets to be a heavy black coating on the copper (I'm using a propane torch to heat it up.) Today, I used a brass wire brush to clean the black off. Do I need to pickle it or anything?
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  #17  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:55 PM
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Mark Fox Mark Fox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassBuilder View Post
One other question:

After annealing, should I be cleaning the copper between annealings? I noticed that there gets to be a heavy black coating on the copper (I'm using a propane torch to heat it up.) Today, I used a brass wire brush to clean the black off. Do I need to pickle it or anything?
Pickle yes. You can buy safety Pickle from Jewellery supply,store's.
When pickled all the oxidation is removed. Then use a soft brass wire brush,and soapy water. Your work will come up bright and shiney.
Pickle brand for copper and brass Sparex#2 ( Sodium Bisulphate)
Substitutes In a pinch, a swimming pool additive called Ph Plus or a compararable product can be used as a pickle. It has the same active ingredient as Sparex. ( the information on Sparex is from a book called the complete metalsmith by Tim McCreight) A very good book.
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  #18  
Old 12-26-2011, 11:35 PM
TheRodDoc TheRodDoc is offline
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There is no need to quench after heating to gray color to very faint red color. The quench process is only to stop the annealing process at a certian point of temper. Or quench to stop the annealing from moving to a part that you don't want annealed.
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  #19  
Old 12-27-2011, 12:19 AM
Dyce Dyce is offline
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I was at the shop today and hammered out a peice quick to show you what I was talking about.
I picked a peice of drop for a hammerform and rounded the edges. Then I cut a peice of 19 ga. steel.

I marked off the center....

Then I stretched the center with a ballpeen hammer. This was quick and rough since I don't plan on using the peice....

Then I flattened out the center in the press. You could use your vice if you don't have a press.

I planished it in my wheel with the hammerform.

Here is what I ended up with. The edges are started over, and you have less material to shrink this way.





I did no shrinking to this point.
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  #20  
Old 12-27-2011, 01:10 AM
BrassBuilder BrassBuilder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyce View Post
I was at the shop today and hammered out a peice quick to show you what I was talking about.
I picked a peice of drop for a hammerform and rounded the edges. Then I cut a peice of 19 ga. steel.

I marked off the center....

Then I stretched the center with a ballpeen hammer. This was quick and rough since I don't plan on using the peice....

Then I flattened out the center in the press. You could use your vice if you don't have a press.

I planished it in my wheel with the hammerform.

Here is what I ended up with. The edges are started over, and you have less material to shrink this way.

I did no shrinking to this point.
That is more or less where I am headed except with a wood pattern instead of a metal one.

I don't have an english wheel either. It is on the "to-do" list. But I need to build a miniature one for 1/8 scale body panels.

I am really appreciating all the advice. I'm going to mess with it some more tomorrow morning. Once I get a handle on shrinking and stretching metal, I should be able to make anything.
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