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  #161  
Old 10-29-2018, 12:44 PM
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Superleggera Superleggera is offline
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850 lights are mounted in the bodywork on a Miura. If you did the Porsche route, it would have been best to mount to the subframe itself given the weight and pop-up mechanism. Glad you found those Fiat parts as they can be a challenge! (or stupidly expensive)
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  #162  
Old 11-03-2018, 08:03 PM
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heinke heinke is offline
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Post Chassis Front Extension Fabrication (part 2)

The next order of business was to add in a cross brace to provide structural support for the lower radiator mount. Vertical connectors between the bottom and middle tubes were also added next to the cross brace.



I then folded up a piece of Al 5052 .063 for the bottom radiator mount.



Next was designing the structural support for the battery box. I started this by adding a diagonal brace to keep the front framework from moving side to side. The side of the battery box was framed from there.



All this framework construction was going smoothly but then I started to get nervous about if it would be strong enough. After all, it needs to support a radiator full of coolant, a lead filled battery, one piece tilt front end, bumper (even if it’s mostly cosmetic) and lights. I hadn’t yet welded the bottom to middle tube connectors to the middle tubes. I had used Al 6063 ¾” by 1 ½” tubes so far. I checked my metal supplier and they stocked Al 6061 T6 in 1” by 1 ½”. While only ¼” thicker, the combination of size and alloy makes these tubes stronger. I figured better stronger than not so I bought some more aluminum stock and remade the middle tubes.





I decided to make the battery box bottom from Al 5052 .063. Some small beads were rolled into the sheet to make the bottom stiffer before folding.



Folding up the battery box sides turned out to be quite a chore. I don’t have a box/pan or finger break. I have a Magnabend break which uses electro magnets to hold the bending dies in place. It usually does fine on Al .063 when I can use a 48” bending die because there’s lots of ferrous metal for the magnets to hold. Given the smaller size of the battery box, only smaller bending dies could be used and the magnets just couldn’t hold them enough to bend the metal. So I used a combination of bead roller with tipping die, air power hammer with flanging dies and rubber hammer and handheld dolly to fold up the battery box. It turned out fine but took a lot more time than if a good old manual finger break were used.



More to come.
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  #163  
Old 11-08-2018, 12:11 PM
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heinke heinke is offline
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Post Chassis Front Extension Fabrication (part 3)

My objective for the front chassis extension at this point is to get the remaining tubes in place and fabricate the radiator upper mount. The two upper tubes should add a lot of strength to the framework given their angled orientation.



A quick check with the digital level shows the frame assembly is still dead level after the two upper tubes were tacked in place.



Next was to figure out the radiator upper mount. While doing this, I decided it was time to trial fit the A/C radiator so I could factor it into the mounts. I got a scare as the A/C hose fittings would not clear the frame tubes. My first thought was to put some notches in the tubes for clearance. But after sleeping on it, a simpler solution came to mind. Instead of having the radiators centered up in the chassis, if I offset them 1 ½” to driver’s side then 90 degree A/C hose fittings would now clear the frame tubes.





A horizontal cross tube is being used for the radiator upper mount. Riv-nuts are used in this tube to accept fasteners for the sheet metal mount (actual mount not pictured).



I also added some triangulation tubes for strengthening into the framework. With that, the framework is complete except the very front. I need to figure out and design the hinges for the front clip prior to completing that area. So I spent a half day crawling around on the floor doing body contortions while welding up all the joints.



Radiator and battery now properly sit in place without wood blocks or straps to support them.



And there’s still clearance for spare tire storage.



From the side, things look good as well. I might need to remount the upper radiator hose fitting at an angle if the front clip bodywork runs too close. Oh well, there’s always some loose ends to follow up on later.



All in all, I think the front chassis framework came out good. It feels strong and does not give when I press on it vertically or shake it side to side.
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  #164  
Old 11-13-2018, 10:37 AM
Gojeep Gojeep is offline
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Looks like a good structure for all the purposes it needs to perform.
For you to feel confident in it is just as important.
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  #165  
Old 11-13-2018, 11:24 AM
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Steve Hamilton Steve Hamilton is offline
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Hi Joel

You are making great progress!
Very interesting project.
Thanks for sharing.

Steve
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  #166  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:59 PM
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heinke heinke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gojeep View Post
Looks like a good structure for all the purposes it needs to perform.
For you to feel confident in it is just as important.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hamilton View Post
Hi Joel

You are making great progress!
Very interesting project.
Thanks for sharing.

Steve
Thanks guys. I find that confidence is very important or otherwise I keep worrying and it's hard to move to different part of project.
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  #167  
Old 11-14-2018, 01:10 PM
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heinke heinke is offline
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Post Chassis Front Extension Fabrication (part 4)

Based on a suggestion from a person following this topic, I found a way to orient the radiator such that no radiator alterations are needed. I found that by rotating the radiator 180 degrees it would work better. This moved the hose mounts from passenger side to drivers side but the now top hose mount exits the radiator at an angle and should provide the necessary hood clearance. The air bleed valve formerly at top of radiator is now on the bottom and will serve as a drain. I’ll need to make provision for an air bleed up top but will do this in the upper radiator hose/tube instead of radiator itself.

Here’s the radiator in the new orientation.



I thought the upper radiator mount strap looked a bit unfinished so I made a box from 5052 .063 to finish it off. Riv-nuts in the box sides are used as fasteners. The box will also provide some additional support for the fan shroud I plan to build next.



The A/C condenser is mounted under the radiator.



I plan to close off the radiator and A/C condenser sides to the frame tubes to seal off airflow but I need to figure out the front clip hinge point prior to that.
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  #168  
Old 11-24-2018, 07:20 PM
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heinke heinke is offline
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Post Radiator shroud and electric fan

I decided to fabricate the radiator fan shroud now that the radiator mounts were complete. For complex sheet metal items like this, I like to start by making a cardboard mockup. I’ve found I end up with better pieces and create a whole lot less scrap by taking the time to mockup the item in cardboard.



I like the “pizza box” style of fan shroud that covers the entire radiator core and provides a flat mount surface for an electric fan. There are two special considerations for this shroud: 1) the front/top edge needs to be angled to provide hood clearance, and 2) shroud can’t be too thick or there won’t be sufficient clearance between fan and spare tire. I chose to make the shroud 1 ¼” thick to provide good air flow from radiator core to fan and used a SPAL “medium profile” 16 inch fan. The cfm rating on the “low profile” fan looked too low and the height of the “high performance” fans was too great. The medium profile fan is 2 ½” thick and rated at 1610 cfm while drawing only 11 amps. This sounds like a good fit to this application.



Al 5052 .063 sheet was used for shroud. Putting folds in was again an adventure. I was able to fold the sides on my Magnabend because they’re simple 90 degree bends and I could use the full width bar. I couldn’t get the magnets to hold for any of the other bends. I’m guessing the Magnabend has much greater clamping force when folding ferrous metals. I used a combination of bead roller with tipping roll and air power hammer with flanging dies for all the other folds. These aren’t the ideal tools for long straight folds but it’s what I have to work with. I had to add a joggle with step roll on bead roller for the side where radiator hoses mount so it would seal tight to radiator tank.



The fan was mounted as high on the shroud as possible to maximize the airflow past the spare tire and out the hood vents. I used Riv-nuts for fasteners so the fan can be installed/removed without having to remove the shroud.





And for the final check, the spare tire was put in place. There’s 1 ½” clearance between the fan and tire. That’s not a lot of space but it’s enough that the spare can be pulled out and put back without touching the fan. So all in all, I’m happy with how this turned out. There’s some scratches I’ll need to sand out on the shroud but I’ll leave that type finish work for much later in the project.
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  #169  
Old 12-04-2018, 12:57 PM
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heinke heinke is offline
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Post Let the 3D modeling begin!

It’s time I give another update. The project focus has shifted from chassis building back to designing. The next build step is to make inner body structures and these need to be designed and locations determined prior to construction. By inner body structures I mean things like roof support structure, door jambs, door frames, front and rear clip support frameworks.

My main challenge at present is that I don’t have reliable body shape information to know where to locate the various inner structures. They need to be just under the body skin but given this is a lengthened and widened Miura, I can’t just duplicate the locations from an original car. So I need to design the body work shape for this car and then devise a way to get reliable and usable shape information from it. It’s sort of a chicken and egg problem. I need to have the inner structures in the right place to hold the body skin but I need to have the body skin shape/placement in order to build the inner structures.

The approach I’ve chosen is to build a 3D model for this car and then use the information from that model to build a station buck for the car. I can make contour guides by lofting off the buck and these contour guides can be temporarily attached to the chassis to show where the body skin will be. For contour guides, I typically use ¾” wide strips of sheet steel that can be easily curved with a shrinker/stretcher for the lofting. Credit for this style contour guide goes to Lazze Jansson as I learned this technique in his metal shaping class.

For the 3D modeling, I engaged the services of Dan Palatnik (email: dan.palat@gmail.com and website: http://garagemdigital.blogspot.com/) a freelance auto body modeling expert. I was somewhat leery of going this route as Dan is not local to me but he came highly recommended by a trusted friend and was able to provide many examples of his work. Dan has already developed the 3D model for the Modern-day Miura and I will also be having him “slice” the model to get the CNC instructions for cutting buck stations. Here are some renderings from the current model.







Dan can either develop a 3D model from scratch or alternatively start from an existing model if it meets certain requirements. We elected to do the later as I was able to purchase a Miura SV model from Squir.com at a very reasonable price that met the requirements. There were some flaws like misshapen wheel openings, headlight openings, etc. in the model but Dan was able to quickly fix these and we were off to a quick start.

I had Dan transform the model to length wheelbase, widen track, change the windshield and side glass to C4 Corvette, stretch the body to accommodate chassis hard points and then make a bunch of tweaks/optimizations until I thought it had the Miura look I was going after. I have to give credit to Mark Savory (Modena West) who provided great input to me on the various aspects for this body design. I also have to thank Dan who was able to quickly understand and make various changes to the model.

So to recap, it feels like doing a 3D model and constructing a station buck are a huge effort in order to design inner body structures, I think it will be well worth it. I think there will be less trial and error. In addition, it helped solidify the targeted body shape in my mind and provided further verification the windshield and side glass I’d chosen would work out. If you’re looking for 3D modeling services, I can recommend Dan based on what he’s done for me so far.
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  #170  
Old 12-04-2018, 02:24 PM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
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I agree- you're doing the right thing. Working with a proven model is the best approach for consistent results. While I have not built a car or car body, I now produce a 3D model for nearly every sculpture job I do. Even if it is only for my own exercise & visual reference and not accurate dimensional duplication, it makes more sense to resolve all the unknowns before you start instead of during the job. The quality of my work has consistently improved since I spent more time working from models.

Along with the 1:1 scale clay sketch model I'm using in studio right now for a granite project, I'm working on clay gas tank and seat models for my ongoing Guzzi project. It's helping me resolve a lot of details, like my actual fit on the bike, how the parts will fit the bike & better achievement of the composition/shape goals I have. Later, these models will be used to produce patterns for wooden bucks. There have been many and need to be more changes made. It's practical and simple for me to do it like this, compared to experimenting with shapes & fit during the final job.

Others are welcome to make things on the fly. I can do that, too. But I have never regretted making a model.

I'm enjoying your project, Joel. Thanks for posting.
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