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  #841  
Old 02-01-2018, 01:13 PM
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Jack 1957 Jack 1957 is offline
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Found one more

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  #842  
Old 02-01-2018, 09:25 PM
Randyz68 Randyz68 is offline
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wow Jack love the Camaro also ,want to do some ground effects on my first gen in metal whenever I can get the actual body fixed ,not gonna be a race car in a sense hopefully a pro touring style restomod ,we'll see have had the car since 2009 stripped the car then got hurt 3 months later and sat till the 1st of the year when my son shot it in epoxy and switched it with his car that was outside hopefully after he's is done he'll do mine,Randy
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  #843  
Old 02-04-2018, 06:23 PM
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Jack 1957 Jack 1957 is offline
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OK, Back to the real world. I had to take a lot of measurements, mostly concerning spindle center line, core support location, and fender edge location. I was thinking of making a temporary fixture outlining the opning along the edges of the fenders but it would just be in the way. I have enough measurements to get this done right. After I had everything I needed, I busted down the front end sheet metal.

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Next, there's an awful lot of very heavy, useless junk here that needs to be removed. Most of the permanent mounted parts were riveted with a few carefully located welds in the stress points. The rivets were still as tight as the day they were installed.

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Just a quick look across the 49 frame toward the CTS lower rail is encouraging. The narrowing will take some work but it looks like locating the cradle in the 49 frame should be relatively easy.

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  #844  
Old 02-05-2018, 04:09 AM
Gojeep Gojeep is offline
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Are they like my Jeep donor where everything, apart from the top coilover mounts and upper wishbones, are all on the one cradle? Steering rack, engine mounts and lower A arms?
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  #845  
Old 02-05-2018, 01:22 PM
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Jack 1957 Jack 1957 is offline
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Yes it's very similar to how the Grand Cherokee was built. Disconnect wires, hoses, struts, etc and everything drops out from below. I am working out the details but I would like to use the strut towers from the CTS if I can. The engine will sit further back than it does in the CTS so I will have to put the engine mounts on the 49 frame rails.
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  #846  
Old 02-06-2018, 03:42 AM
Gojeep Gojeep is offline
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As you might if seen on mine, I was able to use the towers and my engine was set back 7" and worked out well. Hope you can do the same.
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  #847  
Old 02-07-2018, 05:48 PM
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Before I take down the CTS suspension cradle I need to get a location on the spindle center line. I need a reference point so I am using the rear cradle mounting bolts. I used magnets to hold strings with weights to the center of the rear bolts right and left. Then I laid a spirit level over the top two lugs on the rotor and rotated it until it was level. In this position, the bottom lug is at the center of the spindle. Dead on 6 o'clock. Then I hung strings and weights on the lower lug to represent the spindle center line. I set up the laser to hit both strings on the cradle bolts, then used a measuring tape to measure from the cradle bolts forward to the spindle center line. 5 inches in this case.

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Next, I need to set up a datum line. This will basically be an imaginary level deck below the frame in the area I'm working on. It only needs to be straight, level, and firmly attached. I am just using some scrap angle iron that I had around. You can use whatever gets the job done just be sure it's not bent. I tacked the vertical pieces to the frame and clamped the horizontals to them. I didn't weld them because I want to be able to adjust them.
This does not represent ride height! It is to locate dimensions from the CTS spec sheet and transfer them to the 49. The print out with the frame specs are used to set up and and measure on a frame machine. I will add to the datum line dimensions and get ride height later. For now, I am looking for a level surface to measure upward from.

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Above is the spec sheet for the CTS. You can see by the two arrows and the red circle, where the lowest point of the frame is on the CTS. It's 4 1/2" off the datum line. I will also have a similar spot on the 49 where the frame starts to kick upward toward the front suspension. The frame is straight and is the lowest point on the bottom of the car. When I have measured and double checked everything, I will probably add 1" to each datum line dimension to set my ride height at about 5 1/2". This car will have air suspension so I can raise or lower the ride height at will but I want normal cruise height to be in the "sweet spot" of the suspension travel. Right around the middle of its travel range.

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Both sides done. You can see some of the reference marks on the frame. From the front back are front cradle bolt, spindle center line, rear cradle bolt, and cut line.

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Last edited by Jack 1957; 02-07-2018 at 05:58 PM.
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  #848  
Old 02-11-2018, 08:13 PM
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Jack 1957 Jack 1957 is offline
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In the picture below you can see the lower arrow pointing to the datum line. The upper arrow points to the dimensions from the datum line up to the locations indicated. I am using the CTS lower rail as a starting point that will coincide with the bottom of the 49 frame. Both are the lowest points. You can see that location "L" is the lowest point of the CTS rail. 4 1/2" up from the datum line. Again this is NOT ride height. This is the height from the frame machine up once the car is clamped and gages are set. I want about 5 1/2" ride height in front with the suspension in its sweet spot, so I will drop the temporary angle iron clamped to the frame 1" rather than leave it as is and subtract 1" from each dimension. Too easy to make a mistake changing dimensions on the fly.
Dimensions "C" and "G" are the locations for the front and rear cradle mounting bolts. Notice that these two lines are tagged. There are the normal height dimension; 11 1/4" front and 10 1/4" rear. These are the dimensions from the head of the bolt with the cradle installed. Follow that line upward and see the tagged dimensions; 13 7/16 front and 12 3/8" rear. These are the dimensions I'll be using. They are taken with the cradle removed.

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I have moved the angle iron down 1" so it now represents ride height.

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If you follow lines C and G up to the overhead view you can get the bolt locations from the center line of the car. 16 1/4" in front, 16 1/8" in back. Double those to get the width between the two bolt centers.

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I cut two pieces of 3 x 5 x 3/16 rectangular tube to 24" long.I went up to 3/16" wall because of the step that only leaves 4" of height in the front half. It doesn't hurt to over engineer a little. I cut the 1 1/16" step in front and cut a radiused pie slice in the back to bring that surface downward.

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I'm going to sink some 1 3/4" x 1/8 wall round tube into the frame to shore up the cradle mounting points. I measured everything out and notched the frame rails to accept the round tube.

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Here's the rest of the hardware for the mounts. These are NOT washers. I used a hole saw to make these out of 3/16" plate and welded the metric nuts to the back side of the plates.

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All pre assembled. I'll double check everything then weld them up.

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  #849  
Old 02-16-2018, 06:50 PM
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I finished welding the cradle mounts and had one last thing to do. The CTS has two tapered alignment tubes on the front bolts that keep everything tight and square. I cut them off the CTS rails and welded them over the front bolt holes on the new frame sections.

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I don't think I need to narrow the cradle. I am going to try to get what I need by taking one inch of length out of each control arm and getting the rest out of wheel offset. I'm still not sure I can do it this way because of how wheels are measured. Lip thickness varies. I want to narrow the control arms first and see what I've got with that and wheel offset. No matter what I might need to do, I will have to narrow the control arms anyway. If I need more, I'll have to find it elsewhere. I can only take 1" off each control arm. It shouldn't hurt me too much. If you notice, I offset my frame rails inboard 1" each to allow for the shorter control arms without reducing turn radius. Look at where I have the bungs welded to the rails. Rather than centered on the rail like they were on the CTS, they are offset toward the outer edges to allow the rails to be moved inboard 1" each .
Next, I bolted the cradle to the rails and started setting up. I tacked the rails to the rest of the frame and checked measurements. I am 2'' too low. The cradle needs to be moved up.

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I moved the frame section up and tacked it back in. This is the correct height. Measure, measure, and measure again.

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I wanted to check ride height and see the movement of the wheel through the range of steering so I put the lower control arm back on the knuckle and set up with the stock CTS wheel. This tire is 2" shorter so I added 1" of shim underneath the tire to compensate. Looks pretty good.

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Last edited by Jack 1957; 02-16-2018 at 06:55 PM.
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  #850  
Old 02-16-2018, 07:30 PM
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Steve Hamilton Steve Hamilton is offline
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That is shaping up!

Thanks for explaining all of your thoughts & plans. Just pictures would not tell the whole story.
Will be a very neat car!

Steve
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