All MetalShaping

Go Back   All MetalShaping > General Metal Shaping Discussion > General Discussion
  Today's Posts Posts for Last 7 Days Posts for Last 14 Days  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-21-2017, 01:01 AM
dschumann dschumann is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Iowa
Posts: 68
Default Views on learning metalshaping at a later age

I am on my third month of a twelve month deployment, so I've had quite a bit of time to evaluate where I am, both skill-wise and financially, based on the fact that I'm 53.

Three months ago, I was all excited to buy tools and build/rebuild my shop.

After studying metalshaping more extensively, I am more interested in how I build skill so that I can produce things of value.

Because I'm 53, I don't have time to screw around when I get home in Feb '18. I need to determine the techniques I want to use, get the best training I can afford, start accumulating experience and develop a mid-/long-term plan for continuing to develop.

I will have money saved up to cover training, tools and living expenses while I learn, but I won't be able to spend retirement money for another 7 years. On the other hand, I also don't need a huge income between now and then, since I will have a good income regardless of what I do post age 60. My wife and I have paid off the house and can easily live off less than $30k/year.

Right now my goal is to be able to fabricate car panels, make customized wall art and signs and make toys. Based on my current skill levels, I can pry make wall art without much training.

If you had a year's worth of living expenses saved up, combined with about $10k to buy tools and get training, what would you do?
__________________
Drew Schumann
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-21-2017, 02:01 AM
Richard Lennard Richard Lennard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Exeter, Devon, UK
Posts: 295
Default

IMHO, you are over thinking your situation.
The one thing that the "Experts on this forum" have made clear to me is that, initially, you dont need all the desirable gear.
In fact it is detrimental.
My first attempts at true metalshaping were achieved with a ball pein hammer and a stump that I carved out in 10 mins with an angle grinder!
It showed me how to tuck shrink, properly, and I made a bowl shape.
I still have it, I was proper chuffed.
It didnt take long, previously I thought it would take forever.
The same goes for welding tin, whichever way you choose to go. Learning wise, oxy / acetylene for me, it shows the basics simply.
The only way to achieve a reasonable standard is practice, all can be done very cheaply.
The good gear makes it faster ONCE you understand the basics, it doesnt make it possible without any experience.
I have been lucky that I have collected a really good workshop, many years of practical bodywork but very little of the "No filler" approach and Im 66.
I absolutely love my hobby and can achieve an acceptable standard, which has been frustrating at times.
I also enjoy finding the gear, in many cases repairing etc before I can use it and then learning how to use it properly - bit of an aside to the metalwork itself.
So, before you commit a huge amount of money to it and commit to a 20 year retirement plan, please make sure you enjoy it.
I have several friends who have planned for woodwork, golf, whatever burns their boat, only to find that they just "dont get into it".
Pick up a hammer and a lump of wood and just make something basic, ie a perfect patch panel, perhaps.
Bash it, cut it to shape, planish and polish and weld into place etc etc.
My comments arent meant to be patronising, I absolutely love my hobby but you can enjoy your hobby NOW, and by the time you retire you will be very good at it and you will have bought the gear you need to make life "Easier" because you will understand how it will be easier.
Enjoy.
__________________
Richard

"Everything is in the system, if it aint working, the system aint right"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-21-2017, 06:02 AM
Desoto Desoto is offline
MetalShaper of the Month March 2014
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 118
Default

Drew,
I'm 51 and I'm learning every single day. You are never too old to learn. If you have an interest or passion. Pick up a tool and get started it's that simple. For me it's been such an enjoyable and fantastic journey. I enjoy every single piece I make even when I stuff up I'm never disappointed or annoyed I've just found another way how not to do something. Just enjoy the process.
Cheers,
Ash.
__________________
Ashley Briggs
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-21-2017, 06:05 AM
AllyBill AllyBill is offline
MetalShaper of the Month Feb 2019
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 375
Default

Agree entirely. Someone visiting my shop some time ago said how much he would like to do what I do but couldn't afford all the expensive tools so I made him a little bowl using only a broom handle and a spoon.

Will
__________________
Here to learn.


William Pointer
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-21-2017, 07:10 AM
longyard longyard is offline
MetalShaper of the Month September 2013
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 1,083
Default

Drew,
I retired at 52 and could finally indulge my passion to learn metalworking, a passion I had since I was 12 years old. Life gets in the way for many of us. In the last six years I've produced some satisfying metal products, replicas of classic vehicles. I've got a lot to learn, but the passion pushes me forward.

I've written several books on metalworking and in researching them have had the chance to interview many high skilled professionals. The vast majority of them told me that it doesn't take 40 years to learn how to build complex car bodies, it really only takes 3 or 4 years of dedicated effort.

Best of luck on your Afghanistan tour, and come home confident that it isn't too late for you to become a great metalshaper.
__________________
Bill Longyard
Winston-Salem, NC
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-21-2017, 07:38 AM
dschumann dschumann is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Iowa
Posts: 68
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by longyard View Post
Drew,
I retired at 52 and could finally indulge my passion to learn metalworking, a passion I had since I was 12 years old. Life gets in the way for many of us. In the last six years I've produced some satisfying metal products, replicas of classic vehicles. I've got a lot to learn, but the passion pushes me forward.

I've written several books on metalworking and in researching them have had the chance to interview many high skilled professionals. The vast majority of them told me that it doesn't take 40 years to learn how to build complex car bodies, it really only takes 3 or 4 years of dedicated effort.

Best of luck on your Afghanistan tour, and come home confident that it isn't too late for you to become a great metalshaper.
Thanks, Bill!

That's kind of what I was thinking/hoping. Oddly enough, the metalshaping bug hit me in 1973, right after I saw "American Graffiti". I was 10 at the time.

My dad hated the old time hot rods and refused to support my efforts to build a Model A hot rod out of scrap metal on an abandoned Model A frame that used to be a grain wagon. My attempts were pretty crude. He DID decide I could rebuild a bunch of hog feeders and waterers, though.

Again, thanks for your encouragement. I really want to be able to produce something of value, that I can look at with pride.

Drew
__________________
Drew Schumann

Last edited by dschumann; 05-21-2017 at 07:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-21-2017, 07:44 AM
timothale timothale is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: near yellowstone
Posts: 80
Default panel fab classes

about 10 years ago I took a street rod panel fab class at UVU. There were a few of us old retired guys in the class. Over 65 and the "grandpa" fees were only $ 100 per semester, the "kids " had to pay over a grand. We kept our eves on what the kids were doing, a few tips and safety suggestions, .It was nice having all the equipment to work with, Pulmax, bead roller, merchant, planish hammer, shears and brake, power hammer, louver press, lathe, E wheel etc. Mill. BUT my son met a guy in his 70.s who had built several award winning cars in his 2 car garage with a minimum of tools. Drill press, small anvil, Oxy -acety torch, hammers and dollies. He had formed a lot of panel work all by hand, very little bondo.
One thing the instructor Cris Boggess told us was that a few of the guys that graduated from the program said that they loved doing metal work. building things, but they hated dealing with the gold chain customers. and how to manage the business end of their operation.
here's a link to one of
Cris;s build and one of his student;s shop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIm3ptWE-kY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MztYsw9RM0E

http://www.saltflatsspeedshop.com/
__________________
Tim

Last edited by timothale; 05-21-2017 at 07:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-21-2017, 07:44 AM
RockHillWill RockHillWill is offline
MetalShaper of the Month Jan 2019
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,089
Default

Thank you for your service. I and many others appreciate your involvement on behalf of the USA.

It has been my experience that learning the basic skills is much more important than acquiring machines. After many years in the vicinity of real talent, my humble opinion is that you work on getting a stump, some sand bags, a variety of hammers, a GOOD wheeling machine, some form of a brake and some form of a shear, then do everything that you can to spend time with the likes of Kent White, Peter Tommasini, Jim Hery, Pat 'Patman' Brubaker, Cass Nawrocki, Ben Von Berlo and Per-Metalman Sweden. (there are bound to be others, but these guys just stand out at this moment). These gentlemen have proven skills and a world of hands on experience, and come from the arena of actually earning a living metal shaping. There is no telling how many 'other' instructors that I have spent time with, but I am adamant that these gentlemen should be your 'go-to' guys.

These are just the thoughts of one old man!
__________________
Will

Last edited by RockHillWill; 05-21-2017 at 09:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-21-2017, 09:27 AM
dschumann dschumann is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Iowa
Posts: 68
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHillWill View Post
Thank you for your service. I and many others appreciate your involvement on behalf of the USA.

It has been my experience that learning the basic skills is much more important than acquiring machines. After many years in the vicinity of real talent, my humble opinion is that you work on getting a stump, some sand bags, a variety of hammers, a GOOD wheeling machine, some form of a brake and some form of a shear, then do everything that you can to spend time with the likes of Kent White, Peter Tommasini, Jim Hery, Pat 'Patman' Brubaker, Cass Nawrocki, Ben Von Berlo and Per-Metalman Sweden. (there are bound to be others, but these guys just stand out at this moment). These gentlemen have proven skills and a world of hands on experience, and come from the arena of actually earning a living metal shaping. There is no telling how many 'other' instructors that I have spent time with, but I am adamant that these gentlemen should be your 'go-to' guys.

These are just the thoughts of one old man!
Thanks for that list of folks.

I've already been thinking about Lazze and Kent White. I'm also told that Ron Covell sometimes comes to Trick Tools in Pella Iowa, which is 20 minutes from my house. I'll also go to Baileigh's open house (They aren't that far from Iowa) and some Metal Meets. I think the best time to get formal training is immediately after getting home. I will have money and time then that I know won't be as available a year later.

Quote:
BUT my son met a guy in his 70.s who had built several award winning cars in his 2 car garage with a minimum of tools. Drill press, small anvil, Oxy -acety torch, hammers and dollies. He had formed a lot of panel work all by hand, very little bondo.
I like oxy-acetylene welding and will continue to develop that. I have a few hammers and dollies, as well as a shaping hammer, a slapper and a sand bag. But more important is to be exposed to other people who know what they're doing.
__________________
Drew Schumann
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-21-2017, 10:35 AM
Marc Bourget Marc Bourget is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: North Ca
Posts: 716
Default

Drew,

Don't think you can be offered enough of "Thank you for your service!" kudos.

You can't go wrong finding some simple project threads and trying to duplicate them.

It will help for when you get some exposure to the "names" listed above.

On first blush, the various workshops may seem expensive but you quickly get a glimpse of the tremendous knowledge base (and willingness to share) of all these guys.

The Santa Cruz Metal Meet has witnessed presentations by Covell, White, Lazee, etc., but keep in mind they're there for hours, if not days and open to discussion.

Jump in!
__________________
Marc
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:47 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.