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  #31  
Old 05-07-2015, 12:21 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Originally Posted by bmikkalson View Post
Update, I have had better luck using the flux separate from the rod.
I used some mystery rod, that was real copper in color. OH BOY did that lay out nice.
Good news, Ben.

Might want to keep some of that rod to try to identify later....?
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  #32  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:11 PM
rcv4 rcv4 is offline
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I have been bronze welding for years with a gas fluxer,its called bronze welding in the UK,brazing is more like soldering with the capillary as apposed to laying a fillet with bronze welding,the advantage of using the fluxer is the puddle runs very smooth and there is no glass like residue to clean off,i think i did a post using it on brass some time ago,thanks for the technical data kent that went stright over my head.
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  #33  
Old 05-09-2015, 07:14 PM
Michael Moore Michael Moore is offline
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The classic bronze/braze welding rods are the English Sif #1, #2 and #101

http://www.weldability-sif.com/media...o/RO011601.pdf

http://www.weldability-sif.com/media...o/RO021601.pdf

http://www.weldability-sif.com/media...o/RO101501.pdf

I've not used either of those, but those were the mainstay for lots of speciality frame builders in the UK like Cheney, Seeley, Caffrey and the various Reynolds specials.

I've had both Eutectic 16 and Messer Group (who may now own Eutectic) MG130. Yetman frames were built with the Eutectic rod. I've used the Messer rod on several frames after I ran out of Eutectic and had trouble sourcing it at a reasonable price.

http://www.messerwelding.com/Product...t/MG%20130.pdf

IIRC the Sif #2 is higher strength/less ductile nickel rod (like the MG and Eutectic) than #1 or #101 so you'll use a smaller fillet.

Keep in mind that 4130 can be chancy to bronze weld as if you overheat things you'll get intergranular penetration. 4130 is NOT the same thing as Reynolds 531, as the latter is a manganese-moly steel, not chrome-moly, and 531 does well when bronze welded. 4130 can work fine, it just isn't as forgiving.

cheers,
Michael
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  #34  
Old 05-10-2015, 08:09 AM
rcv4 rcv4 is offline
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I use sifbronze 101 for frame work with the fluxer.
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  #35  
Old 05-10-2015, 08:16 AM
Maxakarudy Maxakarudy is offline
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What would you recommend for welding a brass window frame on a Jaguar, tig or gas and therefore a suitable filler rod?
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Last edited by Maxakarudy; 05-10-2015 at 11:13 AM.
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  #36  
Old 05-10-2015, 09:45 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Moore View Post
The classic bronze/braze welding rods are the English Sif #1, #2 and #101

http://www.weldability-sif.com/media...o/RO011601.pdf

http://www.weldability-sif.com/media...o/RO021601.pdf

http://www.weldability-sif.com/media...o/RO101501.pdf

I've not used either of those, but those were the mainstay for lots of speciality frame builders in the UK like Cheney, Seeley, Caffrey and the various Reynolds specials.

I've had both Eutectic 16 and Messer Group (who may now own Eutectic) MG130. Yetman frames were built with the Eutectic rod. I've used the Messer rod on several frames after I ran out of Eutectic and had trouble sourcing it at a reasonable price.

http://www.messerwelding.com/Product...t/MG%20130.pdf

IIRC the Sif #2 is higher strength/less ductile nickel rod (like the MG and Eutectic) than #1 or #101 so you'll use a smaller fillet.

Keep in mind that 4130 can be chancy to bronze weld as if you overheat things you'll get intergranular penetration. 4130 is NOT the same thing as Reynolds 531, as the latter is a manganese-moly steel, not chrome-moly, and 531 does well when bronze welded. 4130 can work fine, it just isn't as forgiving.

cheers,
Michael
Michael,
Thank you very much for posting this current list of the brazing rods. It should be a big help going forward. Just as fyi: I was using a Eutectic high content silver-bearing flux coated rod in 1972 and really liked it. Now, we are sourcing the exact same rod from Germany and it's really great to rely on the same quality over all these years.

Because of the 4130 chromoly tendency to absorb braze at high temps we recommend using a 35% or better silver to get good sound joints without the deterioration of the steel surface.

For anyone wanting a braze alloy to join parts for impact, using a silver braze with Ni content is very good, i.e. putting carbides on lathe cutters.
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  #37  
Old 05-15-2015, 08:43 PM
Michael Moore Michael Moore is offline
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If you look at the different frames at

http://www.mojomotorbikes.co.uk/products.html

you'll see some very nice examples of bronze welding. Mark worked at MRD Metisse and built over 400 frames before setting up on his own.

Some people have superb muscle/motor skills, and the rest of us don't. I fall into the latter category.

cheers,
Michael
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