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Old 06-18-2019, 09:12 AM
verbos verbos is offline
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Default Cobra 289 project

Hi,
I would like to make aluminum body and fit it on FFR Cobra 289 frame. I am new in metal shaping so I will have some basic questions but if it's ok I would like to ask in this thread so all the information is in one place.


Metal shaping: I looked at the "What you need to get started in metal shaping" thread. Apart from this equipment I will probably use english wheel and planishing hammer. What are some cheap but reliable solutions I could use? Is it possible (cheaper) to make the english wheel on my own? And will I need any other machines for the project e.g. bending machine? The more compact the better since I don't have that much free space.
Edit: What is the difference between Reciprocating and Planishing hammer?


Welding: Can I make the work done just using oxy-acetylen or should I consider to get TIG also?


Aluminum alloy and thickness: I was recommended 3003 and 5052 (for door, trunk and hood) and thickness of 0.063. Do you have any comments on this?
Do you know what alu alloy and thickness use Kirkham to make the body and where to get it? I think I have read somewhere they are using aircraft grade aluminum. Is it possible to use the same quality material. I am asking in case they have some machines (I won't have accesse to) which would be essential for working with potentially thicker/stiffer material.


Template: I am still trying to decide which way to go. I can either buy the fiberglass body from FFR and use it as template or I will let somebody make the 3D model of the car and make the section body buck from plywood. Problem with the second approach is that I don't have the FFR body measurements and I don't even have access to the FFR car so I am no sure how precise the buck would be. When I am going to spend so much time on the project I want to be sure I have the precise template.


Thank you all for the comments and advice.
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Last edited by verbos; 06-19-2019 at 05:32 AM.
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:38 PM
carl 180 carl 180 is offline
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Hi if i was you first thing i would do is spend some time looking up joe stafford think he is called panelcraft he makes cobras a few hours looking at is pics i think would answer most of your questions hope this helps
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:17 PM
mastuart mastuart is offline
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Keep in mind That a FFR will not have the support tubes That a real cobra will have to support the body, You will have to make these tubes to attach the body to. Aluminum cars use a tubular frame in the door hood trunk and around the openings of those parts.
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:41 AM
verbos verbos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl 180 View Post
Hi if i was you first thing i would do is spend some time looking up joe stafford think he is called panelcraft he makes cobras a few hours looking at is pics i think would answer most of your questions hope this helps

Thank you for the tip. I have found some videos on youtube. Is Joe here on allmetalshaping also?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mastuart View Post
Keep in mind That a FFR will not have the support tubes That a real cobra will have to support the body, You will have to make these tubes to attach the body to. Aluminum cars use a tubular frame in the door hood trunk and around the openings of those parts.

Yes, I know about this. I am gonna make the support after the panels and then try to fit it with the FFR frame.
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:02 PM
mastuart mastuart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verbos View Post
Thank you for the tip. I have found some videos on youtube. Is Joe here on allmetalshaping also?





Yes, I know about this. I am gonna make the support after the panels and then try to fit it with the FFR frame.
This is backwards. Tubes are fitted to the frame. Then the skins are fitted to the tube frames of the door hood ect.
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:01 AM
verbos verbos is offline
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Originally Posted by mastuart View Post
This is backwards. Tubes are fitted to the frame. Then the skins are fitted to the tube frames of the door hood ect.

If I use plywood body buck is there really a difference if I make support tubes first or the panels first. I have seen both ways. I don't want to make the tube buck also, just make some support tubes to fit with the shape of panels.


Primarily I would need advice on the body buck itself. Do you think it is possible to make body buck just with pictures without measurements or should I get the fiberglass body and make the buck from it?
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Last edited by verbos; 06-20-2019 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 06-20-2019, 02:30 AM
carl 180 carl 180 is offline
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What mark means is that you need the tube work doing to fasten the body skin to like aston martin did also all your bolt on panel have there own tube frame which you then clad in alloy.as far as the buck i would use fibreglass shell just keep a close eye shape from 1 side to the other plenty of measurements before you start plus you can sell it when your done
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:08 AM
mastuart mastuart is offline
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Martin a lot will depend on you and how Bad you want to do it. Some say there are many roads to town and others say there is only one road to get there.

I have friends that say I sure would like to do what you are doing. I tell them they can. They then tell me all kind of reasons they cant. Like I have no tools, no experience, cost too much, ect. Most of them have more money than I will ever have. They get mad when I tell them the real reason they cant do it. I tell them they don't want to do it or they would find a way!
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:32 AM
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heinke heinke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verbos View Post
If I use plywood body buck is there really a difference if I make support tubes first or the panels first. I have seen both ways. I don't want to make the tube buck also, just make some support tubes to fit with the shape of panels.


Primarily I would need advice on the body buck itself. Do you think it is possible to make body buck just with pictures without measurements or should I get the fiberglass body and make the buck from it?
Here's a suggestion for you: make an "on chassis" buck and incorporate the support structures within it. Here's an example: http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showp...1&postcount=68

The advantages of this method is that it says a bunch of garage space and you know exactly where the body skins will mount so you can plan for that as you are figuring out where to put the weld seams. In addition you'll know exactly where the panels need to wrap around support tubes.

It's possible and doable to design buck stations via "lofting" like Mike did on his buck: http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showp...1&postcount=31
but it's a very time consuming way to go about it, especially for a car like a Cobra where there's lots of pictures available off the Internet. I'd suggest you go the 3D modeling route and have buck stations CNC cut. Contact Dan Platnik ( dan.palat@gmail.com ) and ask for samples of various cars he's modeled only from pictures. I think you'll be impressed.
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:03 AM
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heinke heinke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verbos View Post
Hi,
I would like to make aluminum body and fit it on FFR Cobra 289 frame. I am new in metal shaping so I will have some basic questions but if it's ok I would like to ask in this thread so all the information is in one place.


Metal shaping: I looked at the "What you need to get started in metal shaping" thread. Apart from this equipment I will probably use english wheel and planishing hammer. What are some cheap but reliable solutions I could use? Is it possible (cheaper) to make the english wheel on my own? And will I need any other machines for the project e.g. bending machine? The more compact the better since I don't have that much free space.
Edit: What is the difference between Reciprocating and Planishing hammer?


Thank you all for the comments and advice.
As to the basic tools needed to take on a complete body build project, I'd suggest the Lazze approach as a baseline. As Lazze teaches in his classes, you can create all the basic shapes needed with an English wheel, shrinker/stretcher, and bead roller beyond the basic hand tools like sheet metal snips, hammers, dollies, and files.

For English wheel, I'd suggest you get one with a strong frame and thus stay away from the cheap, China built stuff. There's lots of good English wheels you can buy or you can build your own frame if you have the inclination. I built my own when I first started in metal shaping hobby: http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showp...29&postcount=4

There's lots of good information about how to build an English wheel here: http://www.allmetalshaping.com/forumdisplay.php?f=29

If you want to work faster, then a power hammer is a good way to go. I built mine using the Kent White, TM Technologies motors, dies, etc. Here's the build thread: http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=12528 I highly recommend getting access to one of these for a large project like you're talking about. Not required but will make the metal shaping work go much faster and less wear and tear on your shoulders/arms. The tooling for it isn't cheap but worth every penny in my opinion. In addition, it works great for planishing with a #1 motor and "wobbly dies". So in essence, it's a 2 for 1 machine.
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